Vrahode Tavern Podcast
Vrahode Tavern Podcast
How Do You Even Write A Game Like Vrahode?
"It's as if I have been serving a prison sentence in my mind since 1990."
"I've been in solitary confinement with the world of Vrahode since 1990, and finally I'm getting paroled and I get to share my experiences of Vrahode with the world."
That cellmate is Shawn Allen Dressler, lead writer of Vrahode. In this podcast, we talk about what it takes to make a game with over 500,000 words in it.
Vrahode will be coming to Kickstarter most likely in quarter one of 2024. When that campaign goes live, you will not only be able to buy the core game, Vrahode: The Calteeryn Ascension, but its three expansions as well.
Trailer Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy5rapu8Dd4
Learn more about Vrahode on the website, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.
Jeff Irving: It's as if I have been serving a prison sentence in my mind since 1990.
I've been in solitary confinement with the world of Vrahode since 1990, and finally I'm getting paroled and I get to share my experiences of Vrahode with the world.
My name is Jeff Irving, and this is the Vrahode Tavern Podcast. I'm the creator of the Vrahode Game System and in this podcast we're gonna do a deep dive into the lore and gameplay of Vrahode. I'm joined by Brandon Rollins who will be acting as your stand-in, asking many of the questions you might be curious about yourself.
Brandon, what's the topic for today?
Working with Shawn Allen Dressler to complete the game lore
Brandon Rollins: So on our last podcast, we talked about reactions to the game so far that you had at the convention and, and just how play testers liked it. For this one, I actually wanted to address something that you had teased me with but hadn't gotten into detail on.
You said that right before recording you had this pretty long conversation with your writer, Shawn Allen Dressler, and that you talked about a lot of interesting stuff. I have literally nothing else to go on. So why don't you tell me what you guys talked about?
Jeff Irving: Yeah, it was a good call. At this point in the project, which I consider, you know, at least as far as the team's work, we are at the point where really it's about writing. This game series is so focused on providing a good story and it's, it's different in the sense that we're providing a good story on many levels.
We're providing this robust story arc that came into my mind back in 1990 and, you know, I spent a lot of time and money making sure that Shawn could get down into the lore of that story and that I could hand it off to him.
The main thing that we talked about was, you know, at this point in the project, we're kind of late, uh, for the team in, in everything that's going on because a lot of the stuff's already done. But it's such a writing focused series that this, you know, the writing takes time to ensure quality and continuity, uh, through the the four box story arc and so I just wanted to touch base with Shawn, see where they are, see how they're feeling, and you know, we've got a, a Set Up and Rule Guide now that is done.
Uh, uh, had a chat with Flo about that this, this last week. And so she's applying the final changes to that other than small tweaks. Um, we have a Vrahode Visitor's Guide, which is the first document that players will see when they open the box for the core box.
And we are about ready to pivot and change our focus over to the extremely large Campaign book and the extremely large Quest book. Both of these are enormous. I don't think, uh, well, I, I know not, I know that there's no other game system out there that has the writing that we have. Um, the closest thing I can think of is Middara.
I mean, they've got a great big spiral bound book that you play through, but it's, it's a mix of story and maps. Well, We've got big books of story without really many maps in them, you know, it's more about story. So, you know, I wanted to touch base, see where he is, and, "Wow!" I'm very encouraged. I, I think he's excited about the project.
Um, and, and really before I go too much further with the conversation, I, I think it's important to note that this could, I mean, not that I haven't released spoilers about the story arc and in generalities, some of the, some of the things that aren't quite common knowledge to players, but Shawn and I talked about the focus of the core box and how the core box is essentially, it's an adventure game.
It's, it's far flung in this massive world with bits and pieces of Underlands adventures thrown in. Um, but it's, it's very much about, uh, traveling the Overlands. And that's the, that's what we're kind of wrapping up now, is that that big 50% chunk of the game series, the other 50% chunk of the game series. Oh, by the way, 240,000 words of core box, you know, uh, adventures, quest, each of the expansions is 60,000 average, 60,000 words, which is bigger than what most game companies have for their core boxes.
So even though it's, it's the, the expansions are not the size of the core box, they're still enormous expansions. These are not, uh, make a quick buck expansions. These are meaningfully, extend the story, meaningfully add assets to it, and take people to places and with tones and textures that they have not seen in the core box.
My hair was standing up on my arms talking to Shawn. I'll be honest with you. He is, he's a, he's a very capable writer.
Brandon Rollins: Yeah. What, what do you think the total word count's gonna end up at? For the core box and three expansions combined?
Jeff Irving: Hmm. Well, if you look at the, if you look at the core box, the core box is gonna be the most accurate depictor of, of where we end up. The core box is 240,000 words of writing. While the expansions are roughly 60,000 words each, I expect that the final word count on the game as a whole, and that's gonna include the Campaign book, the Quest book, the Setup and Rule Guide, the Vrahode Visitors Guide in the core box, and then in each expansion we kind of combine all those documents into one and we call the, the book in each expansion, the Campaign Quest and Rule Guide. So it it, it's kind of housing all of them together. The reason we had to break these documents into four in the core box is they're just too big.
You know, the, the, the campaign book is two inches thick. The Quest book is two inches thick. I mean, you're gonna get, this is gonna be like a, a document library for players in addition to all these amazing assets that we're providing. There's so much breadth and depth to the story of Vrahode, and that's where we really feel like people are gonna, you know, cozy up to Vrahode and stay there.
You know, they're gonna want to keep, they're gonna keep their players there because it's a different world, you know?
Brandon Rollins: Yeah.
Jeff Irving: I'm gonna guess, uh, boy, that's a tough one. I'm gonna guess it's gonna approach 600, I'm gonna say 600,000 words.
Brandon Rollins: We're talking seven, eight novels right here. I mean, that's a lot of material for players to really dig into. You're, I mean, when people, when people buy a copy of the game, they're gonna be getting an enormous amount of gameplay. It's gonna be something that they can keep playing on and having new experiences with for a long, long, long time.
Jeff Irving: When you claim to be bringing a game system to market, well, it, it requires that you do that work, that the writing is good and that there is a, is that much breadth to the lore. And, and we are really, really trying our best. And, you know, I'm sure there will be areas of criticism and they'll say, well, you know, this, this particular character didn't have the strength that I hoped it would or whatever. But I hope at least when the product is out there that players will just be completely obsessed by.
Brandon Rollins: Yeah. Yeah. and I mean, we're already starting to see some people, even just based on the stuff that you've disclosed publicly, are getting really, really into the game.
Finding a cellmate in Shawn
Jeff Irving: Yeah. People, people that listen to the podcast and reach out to me and say that they can tell that it's, you know, that I'm passionate about what, I am absolutely passionate about it, and I'm more, but I'm more passionate because it's, it's as if I have been serving a prison sentence in my mind since 1990.
I've been in solitary confinement with the world of Vrahode since 1990, and finally I'm getting paroled and I get to share my experiences of Vrahode with the world. And it's so, it's so, it, it's almost as exciting to me as it was coming up with the world of Vrahode is that I get to share it and I get to, I literally get to sit down and play it.
And be part of a party and, and, and play through this world. And it was so funny because Shawn's like, um, when, when I was asking him, you know, I said, "Shawn, I know, I know that the core box is, is X, Y, and Z. You know, it's about, it's about, you know, Calteeryn literally fulfilling this prophecy and becoming the, you know, the person that he or she was meant to be to the world of Vrahode as as a savior."
And, and I said, "but tell me, talk to me a little bit about the tone of the first expansion and, and how it differs from the core box. What am if I'm, if I'm a, a player and I've just finished the core box, whether I played the campaign or just played procedurally or I played some quests, but I'm done with it and now I'm ready for the first expansion, what are you going to give me?"
What, what is it gonna feel like to move from the core box to the expansion? And he said, you know, it's, he was exci. I mean, Shawn is an amazing writer. He is a perfect fit for what we're doing. And he has this kind of boyish, uh, kind of mischievousness to his personality. And he was talking to me about how it was going to be darker and how there were things that were going to, he was talking about the red mist on the horizon that we're finding out more about what is this red mist and why are the Ju'Airne, people, um, acting so angry and, and, and bizarre.
And, and, and so, you know, we, we spend a lot more time in the deserts in the first expansion, which is not really much part of the, of the core box. And so we have, obviously, we have a terrain kind of shift to a different part of the world. We have, uh, we're dealing with things we don't understand and there's a lot of foreshadowing happening.
Um, and we have a, a lot more protracted battles that occur. So, you know, you're gonna get to be involved in that helm's deep kind of a, uh, event where things are playing out on a grander scale than even the party. Um, and one of, one of the things that I wasn't even aware of, because I, I have to admit to everybody that listens to this, I am so excited to see what Shawn Allen Dressler has done with the world of Vrahode that I almost, I reluctantly take in information from him because I want to play it like all of you do, as you know, as a neophyte, as somebody who's expre experiencing this for the first time.
And so he says, I will tell you what happens, but are you sure you want me to give you those spoilers And, uh, and, and it's like the time has passed for me to be able to say yes to that. You know, it's at the point now where I need to know how many miniatures I need for that particular quest or that story.
Not wanting spoilers on your own game!
Brandon Rollins: Yeah, that's a really interesting dilemma to like not want to get spoilers on your own game.
Jeff Irving: Right! I'm so excited about playing the darn thing from his point of view, because obviously I'm designing the game from a rule basket point of view. I'm making sure that we don't need a DM, we don't need a GM, we that, that anybody, any group can sit down and play this and it'll run itself. That was, that's my job. That's the hat I have to wear.
Uh, obviously I wear other hats too, you know, art director and on and on and on, but, but, I really have tried to insulate myself from, from Shawn's storytelling so that I get to experience what he has done with my world since I've handed it to him, because he has much more capable hands than I ever did as a writer.
And, and so it was an amazing, uh, exchange. Um, I got a good sense that the, the first expansion is going to be a lot about the Ju'Airne and the mysteries surrounding that one of the 10 crafted races. And, and I can, I can share that with you, um, without giving you too much detail. I can also share with you that an entity called The Keere, which is an infinitely powerful entity that threatens the, the whole of Vrahode is the focus of the second expansion.
And, um, in the first expansion, we, we understand a connection between the you and the Keere. And then we, um, in the second expansion, we essentially are, uh, the Keere is in flight. Uh, this, this entity is out and about, uh, reaching out to the world, trying to understand it through the creatures and the things that it can influence.
And it is, it is, uh, a very misunderstood entity, uh, but it is infinitely powerful and dangerous and destructive. And so it's like this rollercoaster ride across the Overlands and deeper into the Underlands. Yet in expansion two, um, I can tell you that there are moments in expansion two that will make me cry.
Um, and, um, I think many fans will over the, this, just the power of the story and what. What, what really is good and evil, you know, in the end. And I hope that it, it, it is emotional for people to play it because we want the end, the end result of Vrahode is essentially to, to create a world that people care enough about to fight for.
And obviously if you're gonna fight for something, you're emotional about it, right? You're passionate. And, um, and the last expansion, um, we, um, the, the entity is no more, but the way that comes about, I think will be so satisfying to the heroes. And also give them this drop in their stomach, the place on the rollercoaster where your, your stomach is simply removed from your body.
When you recognize how deep and how dark and how diabolical the world that you thought was bad, it, you, you don't even know the half of it. And that's where we set up the final, uh, expansion of the, uh, of the game series. And I mean, because this story arc was created and began in 1990 in my head and has the, has had the ability to distill for over 30 years.
It isn't like one of those movies like The Fly with Jeff Goldblum where you thought, this is an amazing flipping movie until the very end. And then it's just like, well, that kind of got dumb. This is a story arc that finishes out in a satisfying and meaningful way that will literally kick you in the teeth.
Brandon Rollins: I can't wait to see that.
Jeff Irving: Oh yeah. I mean, I mean, think, think about this too. Think about the fact that you're starting out the core box and you're playing basically on the tabletop. Slowly but surely, you're adding in a little bit of Harbinger when you go into the under lands and you're getting to experience dungeons that actually rise off the tabletop a little bit.
And then the farther into the, into the, um, series you go, the more you get to construct these fun little multi-level dungeons that aren't just, you know, two levels, they might need three or five. And, and you know, you're building, and by the way, Shawn's already told me, he says, I'm not one of those people that wants to mess with building the dungeons.
I'll just put the things on the tabletop. I'll play 'em flat. And I'm like, that's cool. But he did tell me this. I will give you this, this, this, uh, spoiler. So turn, turn off now if you don't want.
Spoiler Alert!
Brandon Rollins: Hey, it's Overdub Brandon from the future. Skip forward 60 seconds at the end of this sentence to skip the spoiler. I'm gonna give you five seconds of silence to do that.
Jeff Irving: But he told me, he said there will be places in quests late in the game series where you're actually going to have to pick up Harbinger room and hall tiles and reuse them to finish the quest because the quest will be so long.
Yeah. You're gonna have to like go back earlier in the dungeon that you've already set up, whether you set it up in the 3D and you're going up and down through it, or if it's flat on your tabletop, you're actually gonna have to pull tiles from earlier to go forward. You have to go forward, or you just have to give up the quest.
I was like, heck yeah, do it.
Brandon Rollins: That's crazy. Um, will it be thematically like within this, will it be like thematically within the story you were going through the same room in a different place? Or are we just reusing components?
Jeff Irving: No, it'll be.
Yeah, you'll have to reuse components to finish a quest.
Yeah.
Brandon Rollins: Wow, that's gonna be huge.
Click here to skip spoiler
Jeff Irving: There, I will say this though, one of the things that I was not fully aware of when I spoke with, um, reviewers early on about our game is the, this understanding of the, the balance between procedural play and, uh, curated content within quests and the campaign. Um, and you know, I asked Shawn about that today, point blank.
I said, okay, so if I'm in a, in an expedition, okay, an expedition in our game system means you're playing a, a, a quest chain that is built of five or five or seven quests in a row. So it takes, it's gonna take your game group a few weeks to get through this, right? So I ask him point blank. I'm like, well, how much, let's say if part of one of those quests within that quest chain is in a dungeon setting, How much or how little of that will be procedurally generated by the cards and how much of it will be curated by your storytelling?
And he said there will be times when most of a, like, say, a dungeon flat, for example, will be procedural. In other words, the cards will dictate what happens in each room and it will feel very random. And then there will be, there will be, um, story content to go along with that dungeon flat that gives you specific things that need to be done while you are within that area.
And then there will be things that are straight curated. In other words, there will be defined enemies in rooms that satisfy plot points and treasures that satisfy plot points, and that will ebb and flow. He says there are times when the entire dungeon or quest will be curated by me. There will be times when 70% is procedural and only 30% is curated.
And he also said there will be many instances within our story arc that branch, and I wasn't, I didn't ever understand how branching that our story would be. I thought our story was either like kind of a rail story where you're, you're doing point A, then B, then C, then D, or it was completely freeform.
But no, we have varying degrees of, of directed or curated content all the way down to complete procedural play and everything in between. So there will be times when you're choosing, are you doing A, B, C, or D, and how you, what decisions you make on A, B, C, or D will take you to different paragraphs on different pages, very much like a choose your own adventure.
And so extremely branching. And I was so satisfied to hear that as someone who's trying to stay out of the story side of the game so that I can experience it firsthand with players. But I was like, heck yeah.
Brandon Rollins: Yeah, because it means that everybody's gonna have a different experience when they played this thing. But the major plot points, the real set pieces that really, really have to be there. Everybody is gonna get to experience them. You get to have it both ways basically.
Jeff Irving: Well, and, and one of the things we talked about was this idea that, um, there, there's a village under threat. I won't tell you which village it is, but it's under threat from a foreign invader. And you have multiple choices on how you go about saving that village.
And depending on the order, and if you satisfy each of those, conditions is how the story will progress. And it will, you will be reminded of that later in the story arc. And I love that.
And so to me, what that does is it pushes us ever closer to that true RPG experience where you feel, you, you really feel like you are playing a hero. That is
Why Jeff likes Shawn's writing
Brandon Rollins: Yeah, absolutely. So, I, I have a, just a really broad and general question for you. What, what do you like about Shawn's writing?
Jeff Irving: Well, I I... I I'll be, uh, here's a, a big, big block of honesty for you. Um, I have never built a team for game design until this one. This is the first time, the first time I designed a game, it was by myself. I did everything. I wore every single hat and I designed the game from top to bottom myself to prototype, and I sent it off to Fantasy Flight Games.
This game required that I bring in the very, very best team I could possibly build, and I started out with a team building effort in the writing area. And so I got on to a, uh, a job site and began to put out feelers to see if I could attract some epic fantasy writers to the project. And I did.
I attracted five people that claimed to be epic fantasy writers. And in the end, it, that was a complete mistake. Um, one of the five people turned out to be an epic fantasy writer, and the other four were claiming to be, or aspiring to be. Um, and so we went down the rabbit hole of trying to do it that way. Um, I allowed that team of five writers to delegate a lead writer.
Um, one person stepped forward and the rest of them did not in order for, to take that role. And, um, ultimately what happened is the person that stepped forward as the lead writer ended up being Shawn Dressler and the other four people ended up leaving mad. Um, wanted to sue me. Um, were, were just completely disillusioned with the exercise and I, I take responsibility for being naive in, in that effort.
Now our writing team is constitutes, uh, Shawn Dressler and his assistant Alex. They work extremely well together. Um, they know the lore. I trust them. They're, they're, I mean, they're just down in it. They're, they're in it. It's like, it's like that first day of taking your child to daycare. I have spent the time to research the facility that I'm taking my baby to.
I know that the baby is safe there. I know the baby will be well taken care of and taught. And, and after having spent that time with Shawn and then him reassuring me that he was comfortable working with Alex, the baby was handed off many, many, many months ago, uh, years now, in fact. And I'm quite confident in the fact that all that investment in time and money that I, I put into Shawn is going to come back and the fans and backers of this game system are going to see that they're gonna see all those hours that Shawn and I spent to make sure that he understood.
How is it that a male and a female Toreln reproduce? What is that birth ritual, that mating ritual? What is that like? What does that look like? Well, they go down into the bottom of the Pavah. They, they, they, you know, they disappear for weeks. They come back out. They, they bury the, the base of the tree.
And months later, a child, uh, frees itself from the dirt, you know, well, th that's those sorts of details. Those sociological and anthropological details don't come around in just every game. They come around. When you spend the adequate time with a writer to explain your lore, and, and therein, therein lies, lies the, the richness that will allow us not to just claim that this is a game system, but will want, hopefully make, uh, content creators want to play within our system as opposed to the other ones that they've played.
Because most, quite frankly, most board games, uh, board game series, even though they're big and story driven, don't quite have the breadth that we do, or the cultures, the depth of cultures. We've really, really worked hard on that part.
Brandon Rollins: Yeah, and it's, it must mean an incredible deal just to be able to find somebody who you can trust to take the vision that you've had for a long time and actually meaningfully execute on that and turn that into real words. It's. It's just not something that you can have everybody do.
Jeff Irving: Shawn is a lead, a lead writer, cuz he stepped forward and said, "Hey, I'm capable of taking this role." That was the first leap of faith. The second leap of faith was, was to say, "I'm willing to spend money for your time because I care so much about the lore of this world. That at the end of that process of me spending time and money to inform you about the lore, I have to wait and trust for you to return back to me enough writing that I know that my time and money was well spent."
And I made that leap of faith with Shawn Dressler. And I will tell you, uh, from my perspective at this point, it is, it was well founded.
Brandon Rollins: I can't wait to get into more of the lore myself when I get a chance.
Where does the lore section belong?
Jeff Irving: Oh, the other thing, the other thing that Shawn and I talked about, cause I know we're getting long on time, is we talked about where does the lore section belong, in, in the writing? Because we have this, um, set up and rule guide, which is basically just, just the bare bones of the rules.
And then we have this massive, we have the Vrahode Visitors Guide, which is just the first intro document to kind of tell you where to go and how to start.
And then we have this massive Quest book. And then we have this massive campaign book. Well, we decided that the best place to put the lore section, and this is the section you're gonna go to, that's gonna give you all the information about your, your, the, uh, the races, each of the races, home villages, the traits that a race possesses, their racial abilities, pictures of the race and a bit about how they acquire their magic. What is their magic based on?
We decided that the best place to put that lore section was at the beginning of the Quest book. So the campaign book will have pictures of the villages when you visit them in the campaign, but you can access these villages, um, and all of the information about each of the races that you can play and pictures of your, of the people of your race at the beginning of the Quest book.
And so you'll be able to research and put some kind of, um, detail to why you're choosing to play a Cautuuk Dreamcatcher, or why, for example, that the Athak-uul Spark is right up your alley. Well, by the time you read through the lore section, which isn't, isn't extremely long, it gives you just enough of a taste of each of the races that you feel informed.
Then you'll be able to say, I am definitely playing the Drelrhune Rook because I wanna do martial arts and I don't need weapons. I'm gonna go out there and kick some butt. You know, it's that kind of stuff. It gives you that, at least enough kind of backstory on every pre-generated hero that we offer in the core box and each race, so that if you're not gonna play a pre-generated hero, if you're gonna play a custom hero, at least you know what your race's, traits are and their abilities, so that you can use that as the basis to construct your custom hero.
Because I think a lot of people, uh, me included, I love tinkering with rules. I love tinkering with skills, and what combination of skills can I bring together to be the best hero in my group. And so, you know, it was important for me to, to know, where that lore section was going to reside so that we knew where to point people to, to go find that information so that they felt
Brandon Rollins: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Irving: in their heroes.
Brandon Rollins: Yeah. And I think that making that easy to find is gonna help people, you know, pick somebody that they're gonna really feel a connection to early on. And that's just gonna make the game all the sweeter because of it.
Jeff Irving: Mm-hmm. How did you, what did you think, Brandon? What did you think about our Vrahode visitors guide when you first
saw it? What'd you think of it?
Brandon Rollins: I mean, the first thing that catches your eye is just that incredible cover. But like from, from what I've read of it, I I, it does a very good job of just explaining the basic things that you need to know and helping you find what you need to get started.
Jeff Irving: Yeah. I mean, to me, to me, whenever you play a game that is, uh, in quotes, a bigger bite, you know, a game that has a depth and breadth that, that kind of beckons you in, um, then to me it behooves any company to create a document that welcomes you in an effective way. I think we nailed it, you know, and I'm, I'm not a prideful guy, but I really, really like the feel of that document.
Brandon Rollins: Absolutely.
Jeff Irving: But let me tell you, I have been working with Flo on, I've been working with Flo on the setup and rule guide, which is basically done now or soon, will be. And it, my hope was that it was going to be this concise little, uh, rule reference. Okay. It, it turned out to be more of a fully fleshed out rule book.
Um, even though it's a half size book, five and a half by eight and a half, um, and it's, saddle stitched. Um, it is pushing the limits of what saddle stitching can do. It's, it's like 84 pages of rules. Um, but it does have a lovely four page rule summary at the back that is just brilliant.
Um, but I really think you're gonna like that document. And I'm I'm so proud of, uh, Florentina Butler, our, our graphic designer for the work that she's doing on the books. Um, she told me early on, she goes, you know, these cards are great and I I'm really liking doing the card work, but, but rule books are kind of my jam. And let me tell you, after having gone through the card decks with her and being more than adequately impressed, seeing her work on the Set up and Rule Guide and knowing, I just know that the Campaign book and the the Quest book are gonna be like falling outta bed for her because she's very talented.
Brandon Rollins: Yeah, she's, she's really exceptionally good at, at rule books based on what I've seen.
The Tabletop Sim Demo
Jeff Irving: Yeah. Well, the, the, the final version, or not final, but the, the semi-final version of the Setup and Rule Guide will be attached to the Tabletop Simulator, which is a good topic to cover as we close. Um, the Tabletop Simulator will be out any day, probably before this video even, or this, uh, podcast even drops.
Brandon Rollins: Yeah, that'll be perfect. And honestly, yeah.
You said you think it'll be up the Tabletop Sim demo before this podcast drops, which is, yeah, it's probably, we're probably looking at about a month.
Jeff Irving: Yeah, I think it'll definitely be up. It'll definitely be up
Brandon Rollins: Oh yeah, definitely before this one hits, cuz we actually got one going out. It's... it Thursday? Yeah, it's Thursday. Yeah. We, we've got one that's going out today, so Yeah. This one's gonna go out in a few weeks.
Yeah. So, uh, I guess if you're listening to this check for Tabletop Sim, it's, it's probably out.
Jeff Irving: Yeah. And, and be aware that you're, you're gonna get to scratch the surface of some of the mechanics of our game system. Um, we can't possibly give you everything. Um, the Harbinger system obviously will not be included. Many of the biomes will not be included, but you'll get at least a, a, a grasp of the weight of our rule system and that it's, it's a very accessible rule system that's designed to be fast, fun and consequential, not detailed or tactically accurate.
Um, this is a game. It needs to be fun and the world is fun and exotic and new. And, um, we think it's gonna be an experience that you're gonna wanna play, um, often with your friends and family.
Brandon Rollins: Absolutely. I think that's well said. is there, is there anything else you wanna get into this episode?
Jeff Irving: Oh man, that's enough.
Brandon Rollins: Okay. So I guess with that in mind, do you wanna go ahead and take us out?
Jeff Irving: That sounds great, Brandon.
Thank you for listening to the Vrahode Tavern Podcast. If you enjoyed this show, take a moment to subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. And if you're on Apple Podcasts, please leave a five star review. It helps more than you know.
You can learn more about Vrahode on vrahode.com. That's V R A H O D E.Com. Link in the show notes. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, where we are @Vrahode. Thank you again for listening. We really appreciate it. Keep an eye out for our next episode in two weeks.